In this episode:
Purple Ella, hosting the conversation
Coco, blogger
Dr Heidi Phillips, Neurodevelopmental Specialist GP
Ella: ADHD can shape the rhythm of a conversation. Topics might move quickly, you might interrupt or overshare. This is rarely intentional. It's just that sometimes your brain moves faster than the conversation. Coco, are these behaviours something that you can relate to?
Coco: Yes, one million percent. I think for myself, what stands out most where you said that is the switching in topics in conversations, the over-speaking and stuff like that, and I think when you're speaking to someone that doesn't have ADHD, you can come across as rude, abrupt, quite no tact, that kind of thing. Especially when I'm so excited and engrossed in the conversation, it's that typical thing of not thinking. It doesn't come to the think middle part. It jumps from here straight out here. And sometimes people can be like, "Whoa, that was a bit rude." And it's like, I'm not being rude. I'm just so excited, and I need to say what I'm going to say, and I don't know if I do it because my brain thinks I'm going to forget it, or if I'm just so excited that the conversation and the topic is just getting me going, so I need to just sort of put that out there.
Ella: Heidi, it's a common misconception that ADHD is a deficit of attention, when actually, it's a difference of attention. Can you explain what this difference of attention looks like and how that might impact conversation?
Heidi: Yes. ADHD. I think I've probably got a problem with three out of four of those words. Attention, fine. But attention deficit? No. It's about a difference with regulation of attention. You know what you want to do, you just can't do it. So with an ADHD brain, it's like everything everywhere all at once. We're taking in so much information from all the external stimuli, from background noise, from conversations, from our own thoughts, that we don't know where to focus our attention. We become distracted. So it's a little bit like your computer having all those multiple tabs all trying to open at the same time. You don't know where to focus your attention.
So in terms of how it can impact conversations, it can happen in two ways, really. It can be with distraction, so it can appear as though you're distracted by your own thoughts, that you're zoning out, you're not paying attention to the conversation. You're not listening. You're maybe listening, but then forgetting what it is you were told. But equally, it can be from the other side, that you're talking really rapidly, that you're speaking so quickly that your brain is trying to keep up with your mouth almost. That you're blurting out, you're butting in, you're talking over, you're not taking turns in conversations. And it can appear rude, but it's not.
It's all about the differences and difficulties with knowing where to put your attention and not being distracted by what else is going on around you.
Ella: What patterns have you noticed during conversations with people who don't have ADHD?
Coco: Speaking to someone without ADHD is like being in two different planets kind of thing, and one's speaking English, and the other one's speaking this next alien language kind of thing. You can tell their facial cues are looking at you a bit, and that kind of thing.
And like I said, it's coming across rude and not knowing, and just having, yeah, your brain to your mouth is just the bridge. There's no in between, there's no steps. There's just straight from here to there. And I think for people that don't understand or don't know that I've got ADHD when speaking, it can be a bit standoffish, or people can just be a bit... And it can be hurtful. It can feel a bit rejection-y and certain things that maybe you lose confidence in going to do again because you just look back at how other people can treat you, that kind of thing.
Whereas when I speak to someone who does have ADHD, I just think we're on the same planet. We both understand. And even when we're both sort of talking over each other, to the atypical mind, they might think, "How is anyone even hearing what each other's saying?" But for us on that ADHDland, planet, if you like, they just get it. So we can hear what each other's saying, bounce from conversation to conversation, and it still be the conversation that two other atypical people would've had. I think it's just that sort of, not telepathical, but you sort of just get it.
So speaking to someone with ADHD is brilliant. No explanation. However, when I'm not, I always let them know, "By the way, guys, I've got ADHD. Plus, I'm Welsh, so I'm on times a thousand at this point." So yeah. I think sometimes too, just letting people know when... I think we get fearful around sometimes explaining to people, "Oh, by the way, I've got ADHD." But I think if you let them know that at the start, especially if they're someone new that don't know you, they can sort of then understand maybe your tone of conversation and how that flow's going to go, and it might be a bit here, there and everywhere, but that's just your piece of the puzzle kind of thing.
Ella: Totally get it, and on the other side of that almost cultural difference... how do you feel about the way people who don't have ADHD are communicating? Do you ever find that challenging?
Coco: Yeah. Well, not to sound rude, but when I speak to people that doesn't have ADHD, for me, it's a bit slow. Not saying the person's slow, but it's a bit stagnant. I get a bit bored. I lose interest. So I like that fast-paced, energised conversation, if you like, this very like...
And for instance, WhatsApp, I play everyone's voice notes on times two, and everyone says to me, well, everyone that's not ADHD, will say, "How do you listen to that?" That's perfect for me. Any slower bores the life out of me. I've lost interest. I haven't got a clue what you said, and I don't want to know.
So yeah, for myself, I think it's like losing interest without looking rude. And it's not that I'm trying to be rude or trying to not be interested in what you're saying, but it can just be, yeah, a bit jarring. A bit like, "Ugh, come on." Like, you know when you're a kid and your mum's having a go, and you're like, "Oh, okay, Mum." That's probably most of the time in the conversations with people, and I'm just like, "Come on, get to the end. I need it faster," kind of thing.
Heidi: It's lovely listening to you, Coco, because the speed of your voice and the enthusiasm in your voice is really quite obvious. And sometimes I can see that for people in a conversation with somebody with ADHD who's speaking like that, it can be quite difficult to know how to get a word in and... and how to actually have a conversation.
But I absolutely see that when you've got two people with ADHD, they fill each other's gaps. It might be that the conversation starts going in one direction, and then off it goes down that little path, and maybe you'll get back to the original conversation... or maybe you won't. You'll just both go off, and sometimes you're actually going off on different paths... and maybe talking alongside each other, and that's fine, too. And there's forgiveness on both sides.
Coco: Yeah.
Ella: Heidi, how can non-ADHDers support this difference in communication style?
Heidi: I think the first thing is probably patience and understanding and kindness and just a recognition that it's not a personality flaw, and it's not their fault.
Somebody who's in conversation with somebody with ADHD can actually help by perhaps signposting, by just calling a halt, a pause, and say, "Look, can we come back to that?" Or, "Can we just park that and talk about this?" So helping the ADHD person navigate the conversation if you've got something that you specifically want to get through, for example.
So it's about being specific, I think. And actually, somebody without ADHD can help somebody with ADHD by being quite explicit by what it is they're wanting. So being explicit with what you're asking can get the answer that you're expecting to get.
Ella: Coco, what do you wish that people who don't have ADHD could understand about what's driving you during a conversation?
Coco: Ooh, that's good. We don't choose to be like this because I think people with ADHD is so glamorised as, oh, it's like... But there's a lot of people, including myself, I know, wouldn't choose to have ADHD because of all the, not negatives, I don't like to use that word, but let's say, differences that come with that. It's hard. Even just a conversation, something that's so simple and so many people can have, makes that really challenging in themselves.
So I always say to people that don't have ADHD, just be patient, be open-minded, and just know that it isn't something we do intentionally. It's just something that happens. Do you know what I mean, kind of thing? And I think even down to something as simple as a conversation. When I'm over-talking you, when I'm interrupting you, and that's not intentional. I'm just so engrossed or enthusiastic or just trying to be in that conversation and really be connected with you.
And I think how the world is this way, energy is everything, and I think just read the room and be open-minded to people like us, that we just are just different. I think sometimes people lose sight of people with ADHD because it's not maybe like a physical disability and something you don't see. It's just that instant, they expect different from you.
So I think it's being open-minded, being patient, and being supportive to people that are different.
