In this episode:
Venessa, hosting the conversation
Molly, YouTuber
Justin Stephenson, Clinical Psychologist
Venessa: Sometimes anxiety doesn't start with thoughts at all. It starts in the body. A sudden rush of adrenaline, a heaviness in the chest, and a sense that something isn't right. When we understand that anxiety is a full body experience, the feel of those sensations can begin to ease. Molly, can you describe what anxiety feels like physically for you?
Molly: So for me, it feels like a hot flush of adrenaline, and everything around me starts to feel like a cartoon. I can then start to feel that the world around me is just bigger than I am. I start to feel really overwhelmed. Everything becomes over-stimulating. I get hot, my hands are clammy, and everything just seems out of my control.
Venessa: And that can happen at any point, right?
Molly: So I think that's the most scariest thing about it. You don't actually know when or what. You might think you have your triggers nailed down, but really, everything can trigger you off.
Venessa: So some people use positive words and affirmations for themselves. Is that something you do?
Molly: So I've learned over time that I have to try to manage that by taking myself out. I say to myself a bit, but also being really kind to myself, saying things like, "Molly, it's okay. We're going to be all right. We've done this before." Allowing myself to feel the feelings because when you don't validate them and you suppress them, they get bigger. When I allow myself to feel them, I feel more in control.
Venessa: My gosh. So how does dealing with those symptoms impact your daily life?
Molly: I would love to work a nine-to-five job, but unfortunately for me, I can't do it because, again, it's the unpredictability of not knowing when it's going to happen. You don't have any control, and it's such a vulnerable thing. So when you're in an office job, people aren't always as accepting or as understanding, and it puts me instantly like... It scares me. So it's affected me like that a lot.
Venessa: Justin, anxiety activates our fight or flight system and can create real physical sensations, as Molly was just describing. Can you explain what is happening in the body when this happens? Justin: Fight or flight, it is your body's way of saying, "Are we ready to face the threat in front of us?" And so the body releases adrenaline, it releases cortisol, and there's a very physical response as it activates our sympathetic nervous system. Our heart starts racing faster, so blood pressure increases. We can actually sometimes feel quite sweaty. Sometimes people experience tunnel vision because it's getting ready to respond to what we think is a threat to us. And sometimes that in itself can feel overwhelming and trigger a secondary anxiety response, and you get stuck in this real anxiety loop where you think, "Why am I feeling like this? There's no threat." And I think to your point about being at work, it's probably this anxiety attack, "Well, I can't feel anxious at work," creates an anxiety in itself.
Molly: That's it, yeah.
Justin: And so you get stuck in this really negative loop.
Venessa: So Justin, how does someone balance those really physical symptoms and also not letting it take over their life?
Justin: Yeah. So I think, as Molly was saying, the first thing there is to recognise that I'm having an anxiety attack or a panic attack. My body is responding physically, so it's not just in my head. It really is happening. And then we work backwards from there. So being able to say, "I'm really anxious. I'm not entirely sure why, but that's how I feel right now." How do I then get my body to go into what we call the parasympathetic response, so calming it down, and start to physically look after those symptoms? So we may do breathing exercises, we may actually remove ourselves from the environment for a bit, and then work on the sort of what we call cognitive challenges. So thinking about, "All right, I've had a response to this, but how do I want to think differently about this? What can I do differently in that situation?"
Molly: Yeah.
Justin:And that's also quite hard to do in the moment when you're having an anxiety attack. So sometimes we focus on just look after the physical symptoms, bring that anxiety, so bringing the adrenaline levels down, and then reassess after that.
Molly: That is the hardest thing. I think in the moment, it's easy for people to maybe say, "Oh, try this, do this, do that." But really-
Justin: Yeah
Molly: ...it's like in that moment, the only thing you want is to feel safe. You just have to get yourself to that place where it's like your nervous system feels, "Whew, I can chill a bit."
Justin: I think you said it's levels of anxiety. So if you're feeling that overwhelmed, actually doing a breathing exercise isn't going to be helpful for you.
Molly: Yeah.
Justin: You need to get away from it. And actually, when you have a bit of space, then think about, "Actually, this might work now."
Molly: Yeah.
Venessa: And Molly, you mentioned feeling safe. So what's helped you feel safer over time, even if those symptoms are still showing up?
Molly: So for me, again, I've worked with therapists, and I've had to learn to name how I'm feeling, because when I name them, they feel less scary. It doesn't feel so overwhelming. So if I'm feeling anxious, I'll just say, "It's okay, Molly. You're feeling anxious. It's a normal feeling. Everyone feels anxious." You've just got to be really kind to yourself and care for your own needs because in that moment, you need to be the kindest you possibly can be to yourself. And I put my headphones in, and if I'm even in a public area, I will take myself away. If it's safe, and if you can, I'll go to a public toilet just to sit in the stall where I'm on my own, isolated, put my headphones in, and I love Lewis Capaldi. I just put him on, and that's how I decompress. And I'm able to then listen to the crisp of his voice, and then I start to think, "Okay, I'm coming round."
Justin: Mm.
Molly: And actually, I've just had to learn these things. They don't happen overnight. I've tried loads. They don't always work. But listening to Lewis Capaldi works for me. So Justin Bieber, Lewis Capaldi, one of them.
Venessa: Brilliant. So Justin, if someone is watching and is feeling frustrated by these physical symptoms that they're also having, what would you want them to know?
Justin: It's starting to recognise what's happening in your own body. So, using words like, "I'm feeling anxious," or, "I'm worried," or even if you can't get to that space, go, "My heart's racing. I feel really sweaty. I feel overwhelmed." That's a good starting point to bring back a bit of awareness and start to introduce some control into what's happening with your body. Anxiety is a very normal thing. We all will feel at different stages, at different times, and particularly if we're able to say, "Well, I'm feeling anxious because I have a deadline or exam." That sometimes motivates us, and that can be quite helpful anxiety. Where it becomes unhelpful is saying, "Well, I have a deadline. I know I'm prepared for it, but I still feel incredibly anxious." Then that needs a slightly different approach and being able to say, "Look, can I speak to myself in a self-compassionate way? Can I use some of these grounding techniques?" Also, your toolkit you may have for anxiety, and work backwards from there. But I think the key thing is anxiety is an incredibly normal feeling to have, and it does feel very physical. It's not something that's just in people's heads.
Venessa: Molly?
Molly: So for me, some things work better than others. Some things, depending on the trigger, earphones, headphones, they are the best things for me, because the best thing that I know works for me is silence. In my mind, I need to silence the thoughts, and putting music on is how I do that, because sometimes the outside world might not be loud to anyone else, but to me it feels incredibly draining. Honestly, it's so overwhelming, and I can't control that. But when I put my headphones in, I can control how loud I want the music, how loud I don't want, who I want to listen to, what type of music, and I find that it is calming.
Venessa: Now, you mentioned Justin Bieber and Lewis-
Molly: Capaldi
Venessa: ...Capaldi.
Molly: Yeah.
Venessa: And Justin, you mentioned, not the same Justin, you mentioned a toolkit. So they are in Molly's toolkit, right?
Justin: Absolutely. I think as Molly's saying, it's your toolkit. And so most of us would've heard, in some shape or form, people talking about the benefits of breathing properly or exercise and things like that. And those can all be things that can be included in your toolkit, but they have to work for you. And normally, a good starting point is thinking about your senses. So you've had this anxiety response, a very physical reaction. Your body's looking for cues that it can start to regulate and calm itself down. And so, sight, sound, touch all become really important. I know definitely sound for Molly there. Listening to something helps regulate. Molly's also mentioned developing self-compassion, so to talk to yourself can be quite helpful. Other people will have an image they go to, so they might imagine that beach holiday they had with their family. They can feel the salt in the air. They can feel the wind, and that feels quite calming for them. And so I think what I really encourage people to think about is you don't need this massive check baggage as a toolkit. Three or four things that you know work for you, that you go to. They're not always going to work, but actually the more we practice them, the more we find something that works for you. You're going to go back to that again and again, and that's going to help in that moment.
Molly: When I was diagnosed with ADHD and OCD, I was really frustrated with the anxiety side of me. I was like, "Why can't I just do it?" Since then, I've been able to learn things, and it's taken, well, I'm 27, so it's taken a long time to get to where I am today. But I'm actually happy that it took me that long because now I know that not everything is meant to be linear. It isn't. But I think it makes you a stronger person.
Venessa: Mm-hmm.
Molly: And I think when you realise that, that's what gives everyone around you the courage to even try. Just because it doesn't work the first time, it might work the second.
